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timppu: Interesting read.

If I understood it right, partly it is MS trying to figure out how to make enough money from GamePass subsciptions? I have no idea how the pricing model goes and how much money publishers get from GamePass exposure, is it similar like Spotify where the artists constantly complain they get peanuts from the service, like Weird Al Yankovich revealing he got a couple of bucks from people playing millions of times his song(s) on Spotify, or some weird shit like that?
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idbeholdME: Pretty much yes. A game being on Game Pass from day 1 kills its regular sale window and the Game Pass revenue is shared between all the games on it.

So drastically reduced normal sales and very low income from being on Game Pass. By the time a game leaves Game Pass, a big chunk of people has already moved on and will never actually buy the game. There is also a trial you can use, which costs $1 for a month. And I don't think there is much preventing you from just making new accounts and doing that any time there is something interesting to you on Game Pass.

So the games have basically no chance of actually turning a profit that way, being doomed to financial failure. Most of the companies, for some reason, seemed to assume the covid boom would last forever. The rude awakening is now happening and it's basically all starting to crash down, with layoffs, studio closures etc. Not just in this case, but the industry in general as everyone is trying to stabilize from the over-inflated numbers going down.
Its an unfortunate mess in the end because those layoffs are being drastic.
A "good behavior" would be for companies to reduce some of the high-ups salaries to maintain developers jobs for them to finish their current work until the market stabilizes again.

That would not happen the way it works right now though.
One high-up suit only salary is enough to pay many developers job for years.
Another theory popped up that it's actually Scorched Earth tactics. They're intentionally destroying competent teams in order to avoid having their competitors buying them up wholesale.
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honglath: Another theory popped up that it's actually Scorched Earth tactics. They're intentionally destroying competent teams in order to avoid having their competitors buying them up wholesale.
You are assuming a Marxian annihilation (German: Vernichtung) of the employees.

As long as the individuals survive (!) they can subsequently be reconstituted, à la Joseph Schumpeter's gale, (German, schöpferische Zerstörung).*


One of the consequences of a generation of cheap money for industry is that there exists a significant quantity of businesses that in ordinary economic conditions would have failed; these businesses have "captured" some excellent creative talent that would otherwise seek employment elsewhere where, at least in some cases, they would produce something profoundly better.

So unless Microsoft damages the people such that they careers fail then they should recombine to create something better than that which was lost (just like the Dow Jones average is a positive vector over time.)



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* See Joseph Schumpeter (1942), Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy.
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honglath: Another theory popped up that it's actually Scorched Earth tactics. They're intentionally destroying competent teams in order to avoid having their competitors buying them up wholesale.
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scientiae: You are assuming a Marxian annihilation (German: Vernichtung) of the employees.

As long as the individuals survive (!) they can subsequently be reconstituted, à la Joseph Schumpeter's gale, (German, schöpferische Zerstörung).*

One of the consequences of a generation of cheap money for industry is that there exists a significant quantity of businesses that in ordinary economic conditions would have failed; these businesses have "captured" some excellent creative talent that would otherwise seek employment elsewhere where, at least in some cases, they would produce something profoundly better.

So unless Microsoft damages the people such that they careers fail then they should recombine to create something better than that which was lost (just like the Dow Jones average is a positive vector over time.)

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* See Joseph Schumpeter (1942), Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy.
Hold on, help me to understand. How can a military term "Scorched Earth tactics" where one is destroying its own resources and infrastructure to prevent the enemy from using them, relate to the neoliberalist economic concept "creative destruction" where in spite of progress, the technological innovation destroys old structures?
Besides, in context of the OP, how is the shutdown of Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and Alpha Dog Games bringing progress and innovation right here and now?
Aren't you making quantum leaps and weakening standards? I disagree with your post.
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Provide_A_Username: Hold on, help me to understand. How can a military term "Scorched Earth tactics" where one is destroying its own resources and infrastructure to prevent the enemy from using them, relate to the neoliberalist economic concept "creative destruction" where in spite of progress, the technological innovation destroys old structures?
It is allegorical. Your criticism is more relevant to the use of the original referent ("Scorched Earth tactics") as Microsoft is not a military corp, but an economic corporation. I was refocusing the observation back to a more appropriate grammar. (The employees are not Hungarian rail sleepers being torn up as the Nazi retreat destroys the track behind the departing train troop carrier but people who are free to seek employment with another studio, or even start one themselves.)
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Provide_A_Username: Besides, in context of the OP, how is the shutdown of Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and Alpha Dog Games bringing progress and innovation right here and now?
Aren't you making quantum leaps and weakening standards? I disagree with your post.
Certainly there are many good people who lose good jobs working in non-optimal corporations (and some businesses will always fail for reasons beyond their control) but, as has been noted several times in this discussion, Microsoft are intervening in the gaming market in an effort to control it.

The poor ex-Microsoft employees are the nearest victims to their overweening (Marxist-Leninist) corporate masters seeking profit at their expense. (Insert reference to Immanuel Kant's kategorischer Imperativ and its prohibition against treating the individual/s as a means to some (corporate) end.)
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Provide_A_Username: Hold on, help me to understand. How can a military term "Scorched Earth tactics" where one is destroying its own resources and infrastructure to prevent the enemy from using them, relate to the neoliberalist economic concept "creative destruction" where in spite of progress, the technological innovation destroys old structures?
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scientiae: It is allegorical. Your criticism is more relevant to the use of the original referent ("Scorched Earth tactics") as Microsoft is not a military corp, but an economic corporation. I was refocusing the observation back to a more appropriate grammar. (The employees are not Hungarian rail sleepers being torn up as the Nazi retreat destroys the track behind the departing train troop carrier but people who are free to seek employment with another studio, or even start one themselves.)
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Provide_A_Username: Besides, in context of the OP, how is the shutdown of Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and Alpha Dog Games bringing progress and innovation right here and now?
Aren't you making quantum leaps and weakening standards? I disagree with your post.
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scientiae: Certainly there are many good people who lose good jobs working in non-optimal corporations (and some businesses will always fail for reasons beyond their control) but, as has been noted several times in this discussion, Microsoft are intervening in the gaming market in an effort to control it.

The poor ex-Microsoft employees are the nearest victims to their overweening (Marxist-Leninist) corporate masters seeking profit at their expense. (Insert reference to Immanuel Kant's kategorischer Imperativ and its prohibition against treating the individual/s as a means to some (corporate) end.)
Your allegory did not work for me under the reason the shutdowns did not bring anything good, period. Maybe in the future "As long as the individuals survive (!) they can subsequently be reconstituted"? That's a quantum leap worthy of the "conspiracy theory" badge (And insert here my "weakening standards" words, please).
Yes, you and me wish all the best to the fired employees but your words made Microsoft look as the smart guy doing the best move ever and I entirely disagree. I rank it as another classic stupid move as they use to do.

I can easily find the "Scorched Earth tactics" reference more empathic than yours. How so? It considers all the laid off employees as valuable resources from the beginning ("crown jewels"). And the military aspect doesn't matter to me at all. As you said, we are talking about employees and corporations. We are in the 21st century, we must overcome the traumas and clearly differentiate. Feel free to move to its cousing "Scorched-earth policy" if that eases your mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched-earth_defense
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Provide_A_Username: Your allegory did not work for me under the reason the shutdowns did not bring anything good, period. Maybe in the future "As long as the individuals survive (!) they can subsequently be reconstituted"? That's a quantum leap worthy of the "conspiracy theory" badge (And insert here my "weakening standards" words, please).
Yes, you and me wish all the best to the fired employees but your words made Microsoft look as the smart guy doing the best move ever and I entirely disagree. I rank it as another classic stupid move as they use to do.
It was the pre-Socratic philosopher, Heraclitus fl.500BC, who noted that (πάντα ρει) the world is always changing.

I would add that, assuming something good comes from the wilful destruction of the ex-MS developers, it won't be apparent for some time. (Henry Ford went bankrupt before his successful legacy began and a lot of his innovations were less foresight and more luck with fortuitous unforeseen consequences. As Tolkien-Gandalf said, not even the wisest can see all ends.) Without the loss of Black Isle we would not have Obsidian. (I grant you we cannot know if Black Isle would have made even better games than Obsidian did: that is a counterfactual, a known unknown. Some of my favourite games were made by Black Isle and Obsidian.)

Think what makes a good developer: artists, technologists, story-tellers, etc. If some aspiring leader were to collect the better individuals with these talents from those recently sacked employees and provide for them to be the best they can be, then there is no reason they cannot create stuff that is better than the sum of their earlier works.

I agree that the Microsoft executives (let's try to focus on the individuals rather than address groups collectively; it is lazy, (intentionally?) distracting, inaccurate and therefore unsuitable for analytic precision) are asshats who have done real damage to the company, the industry and gamers. Damage from which they will almost certainly escape all the consequences. (Hence these decisions, which unfairly crucify the developers, transgress the categorical imperative whilst crapping on multitudes who have no way to vote those ill-deserving egotists out of their wealthy remuneration. Perhaps Nemesis will smack them later: karma comeuppance.)
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Provide_A_Username: I can easily find the "Scorched Earth tactics" reference more empathic than yours. How so? It considers all the laid off employees as valuable resources from the beginning ("crown jewels"). And the military aspect doesn't matter to me at all. As you said, we are talking about employees and corporations. We are in the 21st century, we must overcome the traumas and clearly differentiate. Feel free to move to its c[a]using "Scorched-earth policy" if that eases your mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched-earth_defense
More empathetic perhaps; that was not my focus.

When a target firm implements this provision, it will make an effort to make itself unattractive to the hostile bidder. For example, a company may agree to liquidate or destroy all valuable assets, also called crown jewels, or schedule debt repayment to be due immediately following a hostile takeover. In some cases, a scorched-earth defense may develop into an extreme anti-takeover defense called a poison pill.
I take your point that the mistreatment of their staff is appalling, wide-ranging, and misguided. (Again.) Microsoft is hardly a takeover target since they are one of the largest corporate behemoths ever and have recently purchased a swag of successful developers (e.g., Bethesda, Obsidian), so that connotation is less useful.

They are, however, burning other people's livelihoods to burnish their own immediate stock options. (Kant.) In a just world these execrables would be fired. (And billed for the damage wrought.) What they are doing is comparable to taking an axe to the walls of their house for a cool breeze when they might turn down the central heating or, you know, open a window instead. If I may use another conceit, they are wedded to their ideological goal (championing their Game Pass initiative) above all else and hang the consequences (bourne by others, naturally).

TLDR; My comment was an optimistic note suggesting that out of great evil some (great) good may come (hence Schumpeter's gale: creative destruction).

edit: Koine alphabet in linkie
Post edited May 10, 2024 by scientiae
I have constantly pointed out why MS' XBox model is bad, starting from the beginning now and my throat is sore from being ignored. The XBox fans or just supporters have stars in their eyes and have made excuses for YEARS now.
They should have approached entering the industry like Sony did with the Playstation but also acted suitably humble to Japanese devs. who really BUILT the console industry. I had heard MS arrogantly went to Square and dictated they would put FF on the OG XBox after arrogantly declaring they are MS. I don't know if this is a rumor or true but if true it wouldn't surprise me. I think if they first approached Enix and were respectful they WOULD have possibly got an interesting locked in exclusive if they paid for it.
There are a number of fails MS has done including canceling a Level 5 game for the OG XBox, Mistwalker studios when Blue Dragon did spectacularly for MS in Japan and MS failed to capitalize on that opportunity and lock those Japanese in with smaller and larger owned, not timed exclusives MONTH after MONTH.
The OG XBox and the 360 should have had almost EVERY MS Japanese developed exclusive in the US and then maybe Europe(I will make an exception for N.U.D.E.). Everyparty on the 360 was their Mario Party competitor and never got released in the US. NO XBox Japanese games got released in the US for the original except Phantom Dust and that was BECAUSE Majesco picked it up after MS paid for translation work. Compared to development work translation is a relative pittance and would have helped stretch out the Japanese OG XBox library.
For the other cannings there are Project Gotham, Scalebound and a Recore sequel the latter of which I now suspect was canceled by Platinum due to MS having an unrealistic timetable.
For MS' own properties or exclusives here are a few more...why no Quantum Redshift sequel or remake? Why didn't they make a sequel to Crimson Skies? Given the success of Dark Souls why didn't MS pay for Otogi 3 on the 360?

I forgot to mention the coup de grace, Sudeki. Sudeki was greenlit when MS hired the WRONG Climax! They knew people loved those games but couldn't be BOTHERED to do a Google search and find a Wikipedia entry telling them who did it! It was Climax Of Japan NOT UK.
Also the accessory debacle on the OG XBox having many great racing games but no competent wheel SHOULD have seen them make their own. Any big racing game fan may have actually bought an inferior version of said racer on the PS2 just to play with superior steering wheels.

edit: spelling and clarification
Post edited May 10, 2024 by Sarang